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Response to MoveOn.org's Pro-Palestinian Bulletin ?

Blog Topic Blog Title Date
Science A Supermassive Black Hole, Forming in an Existing Galaxy, is Problematic 11/26/08
Politics Why Do So Many Jews Vote Democratic 10/26/06
Politics Some Things You Have To Believe To Be A Liberal 9/6/06
Politics Some Things You Have To Believe To Be A Republican Today 9/6/06
Jihad Fighting Radical Jihaddists 9/6/06
Hezbollah Getting Actionable Intelligence on Hezbollah 8/12/06
Intelligent Design Intelligent Design 12/23/05
Katrina Paying for Katrina 9/23/05
Katrina A Dialogue on the Katrina aftermath 9/8/05
Katrina Katrina, What to Do
Lessons from Katrina
9/2/05
FBI Secret Searches Limit FBI Administrative Authority 1/17/05
Iraq Blunders Predictions of Blunders in Iraq 1/17/05
Media Bias Charles Krauthammer Asserts and Distorts About Media Bias 1/16/05
Tsunami Diego Garcia may have been damaged by the Indian Ocean Tsunami 1/2/05
Single Life Getting from Living Together to Marriage 10/15/04
Income Distribution Economics

The Lorenz Curve and the Gini Coefficient are Misleading             

10/11/04
Indifada Jonathan Cook's Advocacy of Palestinian Indifada Violence 9/2/04
Fahrenheit 911 Fahrenheit 911: Critique and Response 7/30/04
Jobs Economics Jobs Creation Policies 7/24/04
LNG Long Beach Mitsubishi Should Not Lie About LNG in Long Beach 4/29/04
Wounded Veterans and Dependents Petition for Fair Treatment of Wounded Veterans and Dependents of Those Killed in Action in Iraq and Afghanistan 12/06/03
Bigotry Prayer vs. Self-Defense 11/17/03
Iraq Building the Iraqi Economy 8/29/03
Computer Viruses Fighting Viruses Effectively 9/2/03
Noah Winer Response to MoveOn.Org's Explanation 7/10/03
Indifada Response to MoveOn.Org's Pro-Palestinian Bulletin 7/10/03
al Queda Is Tom Clancy a Source of Ideas for al Queda? 5/12/03
Tax Cuts Employment Scoring of Proposed Tax Cuts 5/9/03
Laci Peterson Laci Peterson -- Possible Scenarios 4/15/03
Iraq Implications of Rapid Conquest -- More Nukes 4/14/03
Iraq Answering A.N.S.W.E.R. on Iraq 2/21/03
Iraq

Alternative to War:  Occupy the No-Fly Zones

2/17/03
Iraq Peaceful Occupation of Iraq 2/17/03
Iraq

Should We Go to War with Iraq?

2/14/03
Black Holes Black Hole Genesis 3/8/03, 7/2/04
Space Shuttle

Find the Columbia Space Shuttle's External Tank Terrorist or hunter?

2/4/03
Iraq

Sadam's 6,000 Nuclear Engineers

1/30/03
Iraq

Partition Iraq and Solve The Sadam Hussein Problem

07/28/92
Islam Uber Alles Islam Uber Alles Should we slow the march of Islam?  
Economics Balancing US Exports
Full Employment Through Capital Gains
 
Politics The Differences between Democrats and Republicans, a dialog  
Divorce Divorce Super Fund, Let Spouses Afford to Re-marry  
Drugs, Crime Legalize Addicts Not Drugs  
Air Pollution Solving Smog in Cities with Inversion Layers (Coming)  
Science The Cause of TWA 800  
Medicine Protect seniors with large type on prescription bottles and medical equipment  
Discrimination Ending Men-Only Clubs If it's Social, it doesn't need a tax deduction  
Air Safety Stinger Missile Defense  
Links Russ Abbott
http://russabbott.blogspot.com.
computer science, politics
7/24/04

 

Move On, who just ran the internet primary ran the following article. http://www.moveon.org/moveonbulletin/bulletin19.html
 
I have copied the first few paragraphs and have interpolated my responses thereto in red and blue.
 
Clifford Lazar

INTRODUCTION: WHERE DOES THE ROAD MAP LEAD?
In July, 2000 Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak broke off talks with Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat at the Camp David summit hosted by U.S. President Bill Clinton.

This sentence left out that Barak made an offer and Arafat wouldn't respond.

That September, Ariel Sharon, chairman of the Likud party, made a provocative visit to the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Control over this holy site for both Muslims and Jews is contested by Palestinians and Israelis.

This is a typical anti-semitic remark.  Muslim members of the Israeli parliament can visit the Temple Mount but you say Jews can't.  When Muslims were in charge of the Wailing wall Jews could not visit the site.  Jewish sites in the West Bank were desecrated.  Did you object?

During the indifada Joseph's tomb was desecrated by Palestinians.  Did you object?

The visit implied Israeli sovereignty over all Jerusalem, the eastern portion of which is considered occupied territory by the international community. So began the second indifada, or Palestinian uprising.

The 11 western states is considered occupied territory by some international non-governmental organizations.  Who is the international community that you refer to?

The indifada would have begun without the Sharon visit.  Palestinian schools were indoctrinating children to hate Israelis and to admire suicide bombers.

As in the first indifada in the late 1980s, the demand is for an end to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem -- which has persisted since 1967 -- and acknowledgment of the Palestinian refugees right to return to the villages from which they were forced to leave during the 1948 war that established the State of Israel.

Firstly, how many Palestinians were forced to leave and how many left at the direction of the Mufti of Jerusalem?

Secondly, do you advocate the Muslim expansion is only one way?  Are you upset that Muslims were driven from Spain in 1492?  Do you feel that non-Muslims should evacuate Lebanon?

Or do you advocate that all conquered people have the right of return?  If you do, do you agree that Jews should have the right of return to Medina, originally a Jewish city?

Do you advocate the Jews right of return to Poland, the Ukraine, Iraq?

Or do you believe that the right of return only extends to Muslims?

In the 33 months since, human death has saturated the region: 816 Israelis and 2,384 Palestinians have been killed.

The quantiy of Palestinians killed came from the Palestinian Red Crescent.  Did the number include the 1,000 it claimed to have been killed in Genin? 

How many Palestinians were killed while attacking Jews ?

Most of them.

How many Jews were killed while attacking Palestinians? 

Most Jews were killed by attacking Palestinians.

Here are the links provided by MoveOn.org

CRITIQUE
From the only joint Palestinian-Israeli public policy think-tank in the world:
"The Road Map is severely lacking in detail. It mentions that the sides will have to negotiate the permanent status issues such as borders, Jerusalem, settlements, refugees, etc. but makes almost no mention of these issues throughout the process in the earlier phases."
http://www.ipcri.org/files/roadmapgb.html

From the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz:
"According to the facts on the ground, the [Palestinian] 'state' will apparently be comprised of three enclaves cut off from one another inside the West Bank -- in addition to the Gazan enclave, and with no guarantee the settlements inside the enclave will be dismantled. The 'separation fence' has been described as 'temporary,' but it is a wall with hefty fortifications taking up a lot of land, and it has already scarred the Tul Karm-Qalqiliyah area, the most prosperous Palestinian farmland, thus sabotaging one of the cornerstones of Palestinian economic security."
http://www.moveon.org/r?456

From The Nation:
"For in failing to focus on the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, about to enter its 37th year, and on Israeli settlements, which underpin that occupation, the Road Map misses an opportunity to end this conflict. Instead, it concentrates on Palestinian violence and how to combat it -- as if it came out of nowhere, and as if, were it to be halted, the situation of occupation and settlement would be normal."
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030609&s=khalidi

------------------------------

FACTS ON THE GROUND: TERRORISM
Human Rights Watch condemns suicide bombing attacks against Israeli civilians as war crimes and crimes against humanity.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/

Gush Shalom, an Israeli peace group, on the Rantisi assassination attempt.
http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/article254.html

An Israeli parliament member and 25 former Israeli generals have raised questions about the timing of Sharon's assassination attempt.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0612-05.htm

Senator Dick Lugar (R-Indiana), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has raised the possibility of U.S. military intervention "to root out the terrorism that is at the heart of the problem."
http://www.moveon.org/r?453   We are doing so well in Iraq that Lugar wants US troops at risk in the West Bank and Gaza.  US troops would have zero effectiveness preventing bomb attacks against Israel, but would interfer with Israeli defense.

------------------------------

FACTS ON THE GROUND: OUTPOSTS AND SETTLEMENTS
From the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz:
"Don't make do with the outposts. There are more than 100 of them, and about 60 went up in Sharon's days. If he takes down 7-10 he hasn't done a thing. Many were put up just to pull them out, like a goat from a crowded corral."
http://www.moveon.org/r?454

From The Nation:
"A recent poll by Israel's Jaffee Institute for Strategic Studies shows that 56 percent of Israelis -- up from 48 percent last year -- would 'support a unilateral withdrawal from the territories in the context of a peace accord, even if that meant ceding all settlements.' Here is the signpost for a realistic road map that could be charted by the Bush Administration."
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030630&s=carey

------------------------------

FACTS ON THE GROUND: THE SEPARATION WALL
Gush Shalom reports that the separation wall Israel is constructing in the West Bank is not at all along the internationally recognized 1967 "green line" border. The wall, officially being built for security, annexes illegal settlements into Israel.
http://www.gush-shalom.org/thewall/

A troubling report on the 25-foot tall separation wall from Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot describes how the system of barbed concrete walls and armed watchtowers will imprison hundreds of thousands of Palestinians without access to their agricultural lands.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1546.shtml    Note: electronic Indifada

The Palestinian Society for the Protection of Human Rights and the Environment on legal efforts to block the wall.
http://www.lawsociety.org/Press/Preleases/2002/oct/oct15e.html

------------------------------

CONCLUSION: ALTERNATIVE MAPS
Eyad El Sarraj is the director of the Gaza Community Mental Health Program in Gaza City. His vision for peace involves addressing the issues of mistrust and despair in order to cease violence.
http://www.bitterlemons.org/previous/bl260503ed20.html#is2

Yakov M. Rabkin is a professor of history at the University of Montreal. He describes how Israel-Palestine could become neither a Jewish state, nor an Arab state, but a state of all its citizens.
http://www.moveon.org/r?455

------------------------------

CREDITS
Research team:
Leah Appet, Lisa Bhungalia, Lita Epstein, Russ Juskalian, Janelle Miau, Anugraha Palan, Christina Schofield, Ryan Senser, and Ora Szekely.

Editing team:
David Taub Bancroft, Madlyn Bynum, Melinda Coyle, Nancy Evans, Eileen Gillan, Judy Green, Mary Anne Henry, Vicki Nikolaidis, Rebecca Sulock, and Rita Weinstein.

------------------------------

Are you trying to drive Jewish democrats to the GOP?  Your article is an insult to the intelligence.  It is propaganda.

 

Clifford Lazar

 

 

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