Mel wrote the polemic below in black. 

 I respond to some of items in blue.  

Mel responded in red.

Cliff's next response in green.

 Sacrifice And Recovery

Mel:  John Kennedy understood that tax cuts increased Federal revenue.  He put in place the largest tax cuts ever.  As it is now the top 5% earners pay over 80% of the taxes collected. 

Cliff:  That may have been true before the Bush tax cuts.  It's not true now.  Further when you say taxes collected you didn't include payroll taxes, FICA, or sales taxes.  The lower 95% pay the bulk of those.

Mel:  That is absolute nonsense.  It is the rich that buy cars and clothes and furniture that represent the majority of the sales taxes.  In addition the majority of FICA  and State and City taxes are paid by the "rich" . 

Cliff:  Mel, I'm going to burden you with facts.  The top 5% pay only 54% of federal income tax.  See http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/109/rr1094tax.pdf

The Heritage Foundation says you're wrong on Social Security: http://www.heritage.org/Research/SocialSecurity/CDA01-06.cfm

The richest 5% may buy expensive cars but they can only buy so many of them.  The middle and lower classes buy the majority of cars and trucks.  Rich people don't buy Chevies, Fords or Dodges, or Toyotas, the bulk of sales. 

The richest 5% can only buy so much food.  Not 80%.  The rich don't often buy at Wal-mart, Target or Sears, who sell the most goods.

Mel:  A family of four earning under $50,000 pays no tax. 

Not true.  poor pay payroll tax and sales tax and property tax.

Mel:  Where is your mind.  The poor do not own property .  Why would they property tax?

The poor pay FICA and sales tax.  The middle class pays the bulk of property tax because the rich evade their fair share.

The soak the rich does not work.  I know no one that was ever employed by a poor person. 

Poor people employ doctors, car repairmen and drug dealers. 

Many of the poor do not own cars.  We have seen that in New Orleans.  The doctors they employ are paid on Medicaid, not by them.  As far as the drug dealers, I will not even comment on that.

Mel:  Federal deficit is meaningless.  

Cliff:  The federal deficit requires that 20%+ of the federal budget is paid in interest.

Who cares!  The vast majority of those funds goes to State, County and Municipal governments.  Were it not for that, the Federal government would have to subsidize them.

Cliff:  Wrong again.  The State of California gets about $79 billion in revenue and income form federal bonds is negligible.  http://www.lao.ca.gov/2002/cal_facts/budget.html

Still wrong.  LA county does not list interest income from Federal Bonds as a source of income. http://lacounty.info/05-06%20Adopted%20Budget%20Chart.pdf

Asia Times - Asia's most knowledgable news source

Mel:  We sell the bonds for this to State, County and Municipal governments, pension funds or individual investors for the most part.  That is their subsidy. 

Cliff:  This makes no sense.

See the above.

About 5% is sold to Foreign Governments, or individuals.  Without  the State, County and Municipal Governments owning these bonds the Federal Government would have to subsidize them.

This makes no sense.

Mel:  Think about it.  Of course it makes sense! 

Cliff:  Even if it's false.

Asia Times - Asia's most knowledgable news source

We will do the same thing for the Gulf Coast and Iraq.  Increasing the death tax or the rate on the people who now pay most of our taxes makes no sense.  They are the people who employ and invest.  Reducing their ability to do this is only going to adversely affect our economy. 

The charitable nature of the Americans is unmatched by anyone around the world.  The $500,000,000 raised in charitable donations to date for NO is a tribute to this.  So is the efforts of the volunteers from around the Nation who went there to help at their own personal sacrifice.  The efforts of Houston and Wal-mart were outstanding. 

Wal-mart's efforts were rebuffed by FEMA.

This is simply not true.  The rebuff was by the local government.

What documentation do you offer?  Russ Limbaugh?

Here is the truth:

 Responding to Katrina by Ron Paul
The examples of FEMA blocking relief efforts are numerous: Wal-Mart trucks
containing water and ... and rescue attempts by private citizens were rebuffed. ...
www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul275.html - 12k - Sep 16, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Ron Paul is a Republican Congressman from Texas.

This was the largest natural disaster since Hurricane Andrew.  Finger pointing about the response makes no sense. 

Cliff:  Bush disagrees.  He wants to know what went wrong and he dumped Michael Brown because he was incompetent.  Fingers pointed at Brown.  Fingers can also point at Chertoff.

Mel:  Unfortunately we have a new mechanism at the Federal level.  It will take some time for this to work with any efficiency.  Fortunately it was a natural disaster rather than a terrorist attack.  Let them work out the means of recovery.  I do not believe that FEMA should be part of it.

The fact is that far fewer people than were predicted were killed.  Downtown New Orleans seems to be intact for the most part.  If there is blame to be made we must look at the building regulations and the levee construction, all a local matter. 

Levee construction is controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers (federal).

This may be true but it is the local government, which funds it.  Lacking the funds the Corps of Engineers can only do what the local government wishes to spend. 

Cliff:  Your concept of the Army Corps of Engineer's funds is dead wrong. 

 "In fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding."  See the url:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

Meanwhile Bush, contrary to his promise, signed the Highway bill that includes $240,000,000 for a bridge to a small island in Alaska with 5,000 in population.

Don't Bush bash about any of this.

Bush cut the budget of levees and didn't approve move to restore the wetlands that drain the power of a hurricane.

It was not Bush that had the power to cut either the wetlands or the budget for the levees.  That is all a local issue

Your concept of the Army Corps of Engineer's funds is dead wrong.  See the URL:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

Warm ocean water makes hurricanes stronger.  Ignoring global warming may cost US in the future.

This is all a controversial issue.  We have seen through history the change in our climate.  The warming is in the large cities but not in the rest of our Country. 

Who's drinking Exxon Kool-aid?  Alaska and Greenland north of the artic circle don't have many cities.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Record ice loss in Arctic

The Spring Melting Process, Alaska Science Forum

New Studies Raise Alarm About Global Ice Melt

Pack ice melting earlier, imperiling polar bear, panel says ...

Melting of Earth's Ice Cover Reaches New High : Worldwatch ...

Arctic Ocean could be ice-free in summer within 100 years ...

Mel  Mel Cliff  Cliff

Clifford W. Lazar                                                         email a Comment

Los Angeles, CA USA

9/23/05

Lessons from Katrina.  Hurricane clean up Failure to act using the military who should pay for Katrina